Jihad..

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Messy
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Jihad..

Post by Messy » 02-02-2006 23:25

..read this:

http://www.di2.nu/files/Muhammed_Cartoo ... osten.html

..then this:

http://www.alghurabaa.co.uk/


..What to do? What to do?
The Danish prime-minister is going all viking on it, obviously French and Norwegian papers are supporting it, and supposedly (unfortunately) a lot of arabian countries don't know the difference between a nation and it's (independant) newspapers.

Do you think your country's papers should support Jyllands Posten and their French and Norwegian counterparts despite the danger for your country? (and why :o)

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Jelly
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Post by Jelly » 02-02-2006 23:29

No, this case was a misunderstanding, instead of making the islamic world sure it wasn't, Jyllands-Posten should make a REAL excuse, instead of that blabla they said last time, and close this case before it ends up in WWIII (believe me, its near).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4675462.stm

Very informative, use the See Also section to the right. (RIGHT! Messy :D )

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Isil
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Re: Jihad..

Post by Isil » 03-02-2006 11:40

Messy wrote: Do you think your country's papers should support Jyllands Posten and their French and Norwegian counterparts despite the danger for your country? (and why :o)


Freedom of speech > *. Although I totally don't support the message in some of the cartoons I think people should be allowed to say what they want. In the end, "being free" (tries not to sound like monkey boy in his white castle) doesn't come easy :)

If blasphemy ever becoms illegal again.. *shivers*.

InSaNe`
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Post by InSaNe` » 03-02-2006 16:48

In all honesty, I'd probably murder the guy who made that cartoon myself. Don't believe me? Try me.

I'm obviously biased so I won't comment on the newspaper itself. Freedom of speech can only go so far. When you begin to insult religions like that, you should be no longer protected by "freedom of speech".. How can you support anything that's this insulting? I honestly can't think up of anything more insulting than this.

/vent

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Sixty
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Post by Sixty » 03-02-2006 17:31

InSaNe` wrote: Freedom of speech can only go so far.
/vent


Do you really believe there should be a limit to the freedom of speech?

If I made a cartoon about the pope getting buttfucked, would the entire christian world go jihad on me?

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R3L!K
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Post by R3L!K » 03-02-2006 17:57

Whoever thinks we live in a world where we have the freedom to say whatever we want is kidding themselves.

Freedom of speech is a fantasy.

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The_One
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Post by The_One » 03-02-2006 18:10

And of course you are free to express that view Relik. :D

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R3L!K
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Post by R3L!K » 03-02-2006 18:35

touche!

but let me give an example...

where do you draw the line between inciting religious hatred and expressing religious views? Sometimes they are the same thing (especially in Islam)

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Post by BunnyS » 03-02-2006 18:35

Freedom of speech is fair enough and I can see why it's highly offensive to some people, but at the end of the day it doesn't justify what *some* groups are planning on doing. By all means be pissed off about it, but to say it's ok to kill these people for your "religion" ! well it goes against what I believe in :)

I personally also think it's kinda making a mountain out of a mole hill.

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Isil
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Post by Isil » 03-02-2006 18:59

R3L!K wrote: where do you draw the line between inciting religious hatred and expressing religious views? Sometimes they are the same thing (especially in Islam)


That's the tricky part but still. If a group of people sends out an extremist message they won't be taken serious by the majority of the people. If you ask a random muslim on the street in your western country I'm quite confident that only a few of them will agree with the extrimist views expressed by, for example, certain tv channels like Al Jazeera.
R3L!K wrote: (especially in Islam)
Ok. If you were to block Extremist Islamic Media wouldn't it be reasonable to block Evangelist Christian channels who claim that being homosexual is a sin/desease? :)

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Shinobi
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Post by Shinobi » 03-02-2006 19:06


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Shinobi
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Post by Shinobi » 03-02-2006 19:14


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R3L!K
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Post by R3L!K » 03-02-2006 19:55

exactly. society is always at odds with itself - and conflict is unfortuantely inevitable.

to censor one particular viewpoint maybe in society's bests interest but its stills censorship.

Personally I see nothing wrong with a little well exercised censorship. Afterall - filmakers are 'free' to make pornos, but society rightly does not allow children to watch it (well mostly).

So the question is, do we have faith in those who tell us what we can and can't say or do?

Do we believe they have society's best interests at heart or their own political / ideological interests.

I've actually had quite long debates with highly intelligent and moderate muslims on these topics. Unfortuantely, they themselves tell me that those who we call 'moderate' muslims are a product of western society and in the bigger picture make up a small percentage in their society.

And the fact remains that Islam has the most extremist organisations associated with it than any other religion in modern society. Yet Islam is still, and has been for a while, the fastest growing religion in the world.

The question of freedom of speech is actually a red herring - governmets can try to prohibit the 'incitement of racial hatred' if they want - its perhaps the only legal construct they can use to keep it off the streets. But modern technology as we all know can be used to pass a message around the world instantly - and theres nothing to prevent it happening.

I've kinda lost my point in my ramblings but in a nutshell - we're all fooked.

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meep98324
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Post by meep98324 » 03-02-2006 20:36

"And the fact remains that Islam has the most extremist organisations associated with it than any other religion in modern society. Yet Islam is still, and has been for a while, the fastest growing religion in the world."

Yes, but these things go in phases. The rise of Islamic fundamentalism has been going on for awhile, but until 9/11, it was largely ignored by the rest of the world. Before the radical Moslems, it was the Irish and the Basques that people were afraid of, and odn't forget the first true terrorist group were the crusaders, so you can see how terrorism has come full circle. Governments should try to prevent racial hatred, as well as any other kind of sterotyping and hatred that comes from it, because it can lead to terrorism from both sides involved. It is perfectly fine if freedom of speech is removed for those reasons.

And finally, if you want to see terrorism at its worst, look at the last 300 years in Africa. But you don't see that making the news...

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R3L!K
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Post by R3L!K » 03-02-2006 22:58

Fair point about Africa, though it has been a popular subject in recent films (The Constant Gardner, Hotel Rwanda, Lord of War - all fantastic films btw)

Not sure if Islamic fundamentalism was largely ignored in the past. In relative terms, yeah your right, it's centre stage these days. But thats why 9/11 occured in the first place. To get that attention.

The warning signs regarding fundamentalism had been there since the late 70s with the Iranian revolution.

The problem with Western civilization is that unless it directly affects them, they are happy to turn a blind eye. This was starkly obvious in the Palestinian conflict - and I think it sowed the seeds for the breed of terrorist we see today.

I'm reminded of a line I heard in a song 'one man's freedom fighter, is another's terrorist'

I think everyone could learn from Hinduism, as far as I know, it is the oldest and most peace loving of all religions. I don't think there are any Hindu extremists - nor have there ever been.
Last edited by R3L!K on 03-02-2006 23:00, edited 1 time in total.

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