I don't like it anymore

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aic2276
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Post by aic2276 » 03-05-2005 15:05

I wasn't encouraging you to quit. Try using the IRC chats. You will have people in the same boat as you in there.

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jooly
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Post by jooly » 03-05-2005 15:16

How do you actually get on the IRC chats? There's a place to log in but nowhere to register

Kisa
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Post by Kisa » 03-05-2005 15:17

No registering.

Just use your prefered name.
If a nick already exists, most IRC clients add a character (e.g. an underscore) and try it again.

I use ChatZilla at home. This works fine for me.

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aic2276
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Post by aic2276 » 03-05-2005 15:40

I use mIRC

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jooly
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Post by jooly » 03-05-2005 16:31

Nope, don't get it. It won't connect.

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Springer
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Post by Springer » 03-05-2005 18:26

I use mIRC too, jooly. I've had no problems. You sort of end up with 2 windows to work with and the first time I think I remember having to choose a local server.

Kisa
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Post by Kisa » 03-05-2005 18:44

Do you have a firewall? I don't know if IRC uses a different port than the http service ...

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david_g
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Re: I don't like it anymore

Post by david_g » 04-05-2005 02:27

vucaralo wrote: ...
That sucks big time, mainly because of this part:
<!--please don't help anyone to get here. same for the next levels. only very very close friends if you have to-->

...
From this quote above, it seems that I should write 100+ posts on this forum just to "make friends" and that somebody will tell me where to start? That sucks! I think that making friends of this forum is no way to make people play the game, it's repulsive, drives people off and destroys the will to go on with the game. I think nobody who solved levels -30 to (temp) end did it themselves, without help from somebody who was helped by somebody who was helped by DavidM.


I've never seen DavidM offer a hint to everyone. All he does is throw in red herrings (ie "DavidM farts 121 times") that we all read into and get off track with.

And there's no secret network of very very close friends giving strong hints to each other that you're being shut out of because you haven't made 100 posts. If you come on irc chat, you'll get to hear us bouncing our stupid ideas off each other too. Once someone gets it, they usually just say that they've gotten it, confirm for us that there's a tempend page there, and then they leave.

DavidM's not trying to get some little game of telephone going on with the answers for these levels. And you're not missing out on anything the rest of us are getting.

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aic2276
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Post by aic2276 » 04-05-2005 03:56

Again David_G, well said. YOu have a way of conveying what I really mean to say lately. I've just been to lazy to actually type it all the time.

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frkyjenn
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Post by frkyjenn » 04-05-2005 07:07

*dials the super secret phone number and connects to the super secret friends network of notpron*

Hey... is there a -41 yet?

:D

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Kiz
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Post by Kiz » 04-05-2005 07:32

first of all... I am HURT that you don't want to be my friend, man. *cries*

k emotional outburst over... david g has the right of it, DavidM has never given any hints, and believe me I've tried :P begging, whining, bribing... he's like a swiss bank vault.

[quote=DavidM]or become that good and learn to live without these hints.[/quote]
this is what I had to do. Yes, the minus levels weirded me out at first... but it IS possible to solve them without hints, if you can get your brain to think in the right way.
I'm not a genius :P but I learned how to think in the right way. I have gotten MUCH better at riddle-playing because of this game.

It helps to play when you're not tired. :rolleyes

NonHominus
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Post by NonHominus » 25-07-2006 00:58

This emerged when searching for "hate this game", so here it will be:

At first, I thoufght it were a wonderful idea, a game where your vigilance and pure logic could drive you up. Ten levels later it was obvious that I shouldn't interfere with it anymore, for either it or I would cease to exist.

As far as I have seen, it requires an inappropriate amount of time. If a period of a year or more is required to have sufficient progress, this is unacceptable due to the fact that time is the recource we have the least (except bandwith, in some cases). Imagining what could be done in so many hours, days and weeks, this could metaphorically be considered as a "robbery", because, after all, no one can assure you that the world will still be available for exploration after one year, and even, as I learned bitterly, that you will still have access to first-need supplies, such as food, water, toilet paper, PC and Internet when the next morning comes.

I read somewhere, "The hints help me think the right way", or something along those lines. There is no right way. There is only a way that will lead to the desired results via the shortest route. And no one knows how many spin-offs each path will generate, nor which will be useful and even invaluable in a future siruation. No one should try to do more than just enhance his logic. Apart from that, most hints that I read herein were of neviated me from the way I later found. And also to note, what I saw could, in most cases, be very loosely interpreted. For example, when I read "<somethings> have <somewhat> in <somewhere>", I was inclined to think about the collapsing of a certain concrete obstruction, the downfall of a certain oppression and dominance of what should be enthroned decades earlier, not the name of a food article.

I also read, "If you know the answer, what fun is it?". if your progress is halted by annoying system failures (What if the browser cannot display the source code?), lack of speed (Have you seen Google lag?), or drastic differencers in thinking patterns, this can really terminate your enjoyment. And when it is clear that the fault is not in you, but in an obstruction you have encountered, "fun" is all but rellevant.

But the worst I encountered was the need to download and configure various (more than one counts as "various") software applications. None of you knows what the player's system well include, how it will be configured, what software/hardware issues it willhave, etc. Systems can have uncountable problems which can be triggered by a wide range of software, or even no software at all (for example, I have struggled with IE internal errors triggered by mouse movement, GUI failures, crashes with no event present and self-restart, many invoked through certain softwares or software combination; each of the above has contributed to information loss at least once - and what about "no sound device", "no integrated sound", "no speakers/headsets/microphones"?). So, this game requires the player to alter his PC condition in a way, which may prove disastrous. If he is aware of this, he will not install the software, thus he will not finish the game. If not, he will probably proceed and install it, which will eminently, in some machines, call an unfamiliar bug or error. In short: you can not make people install software if they do not want to, and some of them have solid reasons to deny.

And the forum. I really hate forums which require you to sign up to be able to post. If I need to leave just one or two important or less so comments, I do not want to create an account that will not be used anymore, and worse, to give out my mail address to places I will not attend to anymore. A one-post captcha should be enough. I realize it's not a forum dedicated entirely to the game, but I have encountered security leaks and do not want it to repeat.

To summarize, the game's idea and realization is fairly great, but I needed to express my aggrivation derived from things that the user has to cope with in some cases to obtain the final result.

Kisa
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Post by Kisa » 25-07-2006 05:05

If a period of a year or more is required to have sufficient progress, ...
That depends on the riddler. But even the slowest riddler I've seen (NOT counting the breaks he took from notpron) didn't need more than a few months, not a whole year.
Imagining what could be done in so many hours, days and weeks, ...
Oh yes. And imagine (or better, check the news) what people do out of boredom ... Good thing that riddles exist ;)
after all, no one can assure you <...>, as I learned bitterly, that you will still have access to first-need supplies, such as food, water, toilet paper, PC and Internet when the next morning comes.
Well, addiciton is something bad, isn't it? :D
There is no right way. There is only a way that will lead to the desired results via the shortest route. And no one knows how many spin-offs each path will generate, nor which will be useful and even invaluable in a future siruation.
Are you sure? Then you haven't seen much of notpron yet :D
We encourage people to do the levels on their own (which is why it may take them a while). Usually, after several attempts that lead to nothing, and maybe some attempts that lead to amusement (have you seen the zip in level 8?), people come and ask for hints to get back on a way to the solution.
Apart from that, most hints that I read herein were of neviated me from the way I later found.
Well, we do our best not to mislead too much (while trying to avoid spoiling), but we cannot foresee EVERY possibility to make a level work - We only have one brain, you know? ;)
And also to note, what I saw could, in most cases, be very loosely interpreted. For example, when I read "<somethings> have <somewhat> in <somewhere>", I was inclined to think about the collapsing of a certain concrete obstruction, the downfall of a certain oppression and dominance of what should be enthroned decades earlier, not the name of a food article.
Liked it? :D
(What if the browser cannot display the source code?)
Which is why we filled a FAQ thread with stuff like that. What do you think why we did that work? Just for decoration?
drastic differencers in thinking patterns
Well, do what most people do: Try to think like someone else. Is a good training for your later life, to find out what someone else might be thinking about something ;)
But the worst I encountered was the need to download and configure various (more than one counts as "various") software applications.
Actually, only one. If you use Windows, all the other programs should already be there (BASIC installation!).
And (yes, cliché!) I guess Linux users are kinda used to download additional software if their distribution don't include a certain software ;)
Mac users solved this riddle without many problems, too - just a bit more googling.
I have struggled with IE internal errors triggered by mouse movement, GUI failures, crashes with no event present and self-restart
Erm ... that is NOT a way a system should work. Looks like you have more problems than just a simple browser game, really.
and what about "no sound device", "no integrated sound", "no speakers/headsets/microphones"?
Well, you could have found that out if you'd read the FAQ on the notpron mainpage - it tells you that you need sound. Like many other games, too, btw.
In short: you can not make people install software if they do not want to, and some of them have solid reasons to deny.
Well, then don't. You ARE aware that most other games require even MORE than that? This one just requires some basic stuff (yes, I do call sound "basic stuff") and a program that you will probably still use after notpron (you know, a graphic editor proved useful for most people yet).
I really hate forums which require you to sign up to be able to post.
Well, we do like to be sure that it's always the same person who posts - makes it easier to memorize people, their way of thinking and find a good way for them to hint them. If you don't like it - well, why did you sign up then?
worse, to give out my mail address to places I will not attend to anymore. A one-post captcha should be enough. I realize it's not a forum dedicated entirely to the game, but I have encountered security leaks and do not want it to repeat.
Luckily, this seems to be one of the few forum servers which really don't give your address away. (I think it's safe to say that after 1 1/2 years) Otherwise I had a problem now.

You do not need to display your email address anywhere. Actually, if I remember correctly, you have to explicitly switch the display of your email address ON.

NonHominus
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Post by NonHominus » 27-07-2006 19:49

...And about the "people in the news": imagine how much I hate people who waste money on idiotic purposes while others desperately need them... bloody reality, eh? :)

And no, I absolutely hated the level with the wrapper. Using words that once had been used to express hope, happiness, brighter tomorrow, to point at a snack. Nevertheless, a hint that can be sufficient, but to me, too much of a upset. Aslo, the hints about this one led me in the wrong direction - Google Image search did absolutely nothing to help me.

And yes, I am absolutely sure that there is no "right way" to thinking. And not referring only to NotPron, but generally speaking.

About the games - in most games, nowadays and before, sound is just an extra. You do not need sound to play and complete the game (as objectives/goals/even hints are in a written form, which is the way it should be - to be able to read them over and over, as long as you need), only to enjoy the experience, and in some occasions, to take a hint. To make clear: I have a sound device, but usually it is used by other applications.

And you need at least two programs, for as I know, Sound Recorder cannot handle M-PEG layer 3; not just an editor. (I do not seek to nag at somebody; just to be exact).

The system usually performs fine, but in some occasions does unimaginable things. At another one, opening too many sites or certain types of sites/code causes IE to overload a memory buffer (or something along those lines) and to stip displaying the graphic interface correctly, eventually shutting down its kernel (if I am not wrong), and this is not fixable. If people try to play on such machines, they may have immense difficulties.

Why did I register? Because unregistered were not allowed to post, thus I did not have the possibility to write the post above.

Do not misunderstand me, the game is marvellous indeed. I wanted to point out some things that may spoil the pleasure, or whose reconsideration might make it more devoid of trouble. And, to some point, last tiem I was probably in a worse mood than now :) (it was right after my playback software refused to accept the level 10 music file, even after decompression/recompression of the MPEG, which it had not done ever before - enough, I believe, to ruin anybody's joy in the midst of the night :)). Keep it going, and may the hints be more intuitive :).

edit: nothing more is to be said, dialogue closed :)

Kisa
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Post by Kisa » 27-07-2006 20:12

...And about the "people in the news": imagine how much I hate people who waste money on idiotic purposes while others desperately need them... bloody reality, eh? :)
That we have in common ;)
<...> Aslo, the hints about this one led me in the wrong direction - Google Image search did absolutely nothing to help me.
Well, sorry. For some, it helps, for some, it doesn't. It all depends on the riddler's way of thinking, but most other hints could have spoiled.
And yes, I am absolutely sure that there is no "right way" to thinking. And not referring only to NotPron, but generally speaking.
:p
About the games - in most games, nowadays and before, sound is just an extra. You do not need sound to play and complete the game (as objectives/goals/even hints are in a written form, which is the way it should be - to be able to read them over and over, as long as you need), only to enjoy the experience, and in some occasions, to take a hint. To make clear: I have a sound device, but usually it is used by other applications.
Sounds like you didn't play such a variety of games. I know some games where sound is essential (deathball is one of them, I heard ;))
And you need at least two programs, for as I know, Sound Recorder cannot handle M-PEG layer 3; not just an editor. (I do not seek to nag at somebody; just to be exact).
But it's a RECORDER. So, you can handle the wave files you get through it.
The system usually performs fine, but in some occasions does unimaginable things. At another one, opening too many sites or certain types of sites/code causes IE to overload a memory buffer (or something along those lines) and to stip displaying the graphic interface correctly, eventually shutting down its kernel (if I am not wrong), and this is not fixable. If people try to play on such machines, they may have immense difficulties.
I still think there is something wrong with that system. Did you do all updates?
I mean, I'm not an expert like you seem to be, but I'm not having any problems with dozens of sites open, on 3 different browsers at once (sometimes for testing, sometimes for different cookie settings and stuff like that), and my system never crashes or behaves funny.
Do not misunderstand me, the game is marvellous indeed. I wanted to point out some things that may spoil the pleasure, or whose reconsideration might make it more devoid of trouble. And, to some point, last tiem I was probably in a worse mood than now :) (it was right after my playback software refused to accept the level 10 music file, even after decompression/recompression of the MPEG, which it had not done ever before - enough, I believe, to ruin anybody's joy in the midst of the night :)). Keep it going, and may the hints be more intuitive :).
I'll do my best ;)
edit: nothing more is to be said, dialogue closed :)
Too late :D

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